Praying to Mary and the Saints in Heaven

A friend of mine once posted a video blog about society setting up role models for itself (sports figures, war heroes, etc.). He spoke about how much he appreciated, during points in his life as he struggled with faith and morality, having a particularly awesome role model; the Mother of Jesus Christ. He spoke of being able to look up to her and follow her example of saying "yes" to God, no matter what the neighbors would say [of her seemingly untimely pregnancy], or no matter the hurt she would feel [when her Son was given up on the cross]. He recounted the great instructions she left all of humanity when she said, "Do whatever He tells you". And he mentioned how great it is to have such a great role model in whom we find no moral faults such as drug or porn addiction, spouse abuse, adultery, or other moral faults to which so many of our role models fall prey. And somewhere in the comments, he mentioned how great it is to ask such a great role model to pray for his spiritual growth in Christ.

A friend of his had some comments and questions. And I had an opportunity to discuss with her. But before you continue reading, I invite you to watch the video blog by Michael Henderson, titled "Upside Down World". (You may have to be logged into Facebook to view it...I'm not sure.)
https://www.facebook.com/michael.p.henderson.5/videos/10210014772506067/

MD - I'm glad to hear this topic from you! [Husband] and I discuss this often (being that he was raised Catholic and they had a statue of Mary that rotated through the homes of their church for a week at a time and I was raised Baptist. We don't go to either denomination now. Our churches have been Bible churches non-denominational). Before you even got to your part about Mary, you mentioned the saint that you "ask to pray" for you. That already sparked a question. Then when you made your point about Mary and said that it's viewed as idolatry and yet those other things are not I saw the connection you were making and wanted some info on your perspective.
I am confused at how you are asking the spirit of dead people to pray for you? I also don't think that the saint is an acceptable person to pray to (they are people that the church as glorified with a title). I don't see why you would pray to either one. I've never heard of that. I pray directly to Father God and Jesus. The veil was torn and I go straight to the source. I don't need a special saint or Mary to intercede on my behalf because they don't have more clout than me. I am a child of God, with the Holy Spirit residing in me. I do not know about differences in the Protestant bible compared to the Catholic bible but probably some of the reason that non-Catholics don't understand your praying to Mary because she is not viewed as Holy, Sinless, or immortal. She was a regular woman, chosen in the same way as Moses, or Noah, etc to carry out a portion of God's plan. I think it CAN become idolatry (but so can exercise, work, money, personal attention, and so on) to put faith in Mary or to worship her. That Glory belongs to the Lord. However in my own upbringing the concern was not really about praying to Mary (or any other person, dead or alive) being idolatry, but more it being completely unBiblical in general. In my own life I can imagine certain Bible characters being an inspiration of good character or having attributes I am drawn to-- but I do not see any purpose in praying to them or "asking" them to pray for me. You can PM me if your response is lengthy :) I assume you will have some interesting things to say!


Dave - "I am confused at how you are asking the spirit of dead people to pray for you?"
-"How" is just by asking them to pray for us. "Why" might be a better question. And the answer is, because "the prayer of the righteous avails much" (James 5:16). Who is more righteous than people in Heaven with God? :-) Which I guess brings up another point: they aren't "dead", because "God is God of the living" (Lk 20:38). Do you suppose that when YOU die and go to be with Jesus, that you will be "dead" in Christ, or "fully alive" in Christ?


MD - I see your point that their spirit is alive- their body is dead (in human terms). I should have worded that differently. My point was that they were human, not Demi-Gods and that they are no more righteous than I. There are not tiers of value amongst us. There's us, and above us there's God (Trinity). The "saints" that church appoints are not better than me because they accomplished some wonderful Kingdom tasks. While the Catholic Church claims that saints have earned a higher degree of holiness, the Bible refers to all who are "in Christ"/ all christians as Saints. I'm covered by the blood of Jesus- HIS righteousness makes me holy, an heir to Heaven as a child of God. I don't need some "better" Christian to beseech God on my behalf. Not by works of righteousness (Titus 3:5), but by His GRACE. So while we can say for certain that the SPIRIT of the folks of the past are alive and well in Heaven or Hell, I still don't see any reason to pray to them or any indication that they are hearing me. My God doesn't view them as "better" than me, or choose to listen to them before me. Tim. 2:5 says Jesus is the only mediator. Heb. 7:25 says JESUS is interceding for me. Why would I need anyone else? The Bible never instructs us to pray to anyone else and never says anyone else can hear us. (But maybe a protestant Bible is different and I'm missing this?). I also believe your James reference to be out of context because as a Born Again Christian (2 Corinth. 5:21 "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.") Jesus' blood and my acceptance as a Christian of his salvation make me "the righteous". I don't need to go find someone "more righteous" to pray on my behalf-- to my understanding. 🤷🏼‍♀️ this is truly an issue amongst believers. No one I know understands why Catholics believe this (however amazing we think those Catholics are!).


Dave - Yes, of coarse we are all humans, including the Saints. :-) And the Church doesn't claim anything about them other than the reality: that they are in Heaven. People in Heaven aren't committing sin, nor being tempted to sin, and are seeing God face to face, as He is, instead of as through a darkened glass (in the words of the Apostle Paul). They have been purified in Christ and purged of all stain of sin...made PERFECT, as through fire (1Pet 1:22, Heb 12:22-23, 1Cor 3:13-15, Rev 21:27)!
So, if it's okay for me to ask my brother in Christ who is alive on earth, and being tempted to sin, and living in a sinful world surrounded by evil, to pray for me; why isn't it okay for me to ask someone to pray for me who is in the very presence of our Lord?! :-) If the angels in Heaven continually offer up our prayers to God for us (Rev 5:8, 8:3-4; cf. Mt 18:10 ), then why not my brothers and sisters who have "become like angels" (Mk 12:25), some of whom are already praying for earthly vindication (Rev 6:9-11) and were all too happy to pray for me while they were on earth, and are now fully alive in our Savior? Since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses (Heb 12:1; cf. Heb 11), why not ask them to pray for me?
Are you telling me that when you die and go to Heaven, and I keep asking you to pray for me to the Lord, that you are going to tell me "nope, I'm no longer 'alive' so I can't 'mediate' for you to bring you closer to Christ"?
Are you telling me that when you are in the presence of our Lord in Heaven, you will be no more filled with grace than you are now?



Photo courtesy of Family Missions Company. To help the Hendersons, and other families, spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ all over the world, please visit: https://www.familymissionscompany.com/project/henderson-family/

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