Mary's "Imaginary" Partner, and other Fallacies
I don't like attention grabber headlines just for the sake of grabbing attention, so I decided not to title this article after the first statement by this atheist. But the fact is, he is saying that if the Virgin Birth is true, then Jesus is "a bastard". According to his view, if Christians believe that Jesus was born outside of Marriage, then that leaves us looking like fools who worship a fatherless child. I normally don't respond to rubbish of this sort, but it was a great opportunity to point out to this person that he was engaging in illogical debate. Since he purports to be "logical", I hoped he'd find this important, and you, the reader, may also benefit from seeing a few more examples of deceptive tactics used by people in arguments.
Sardar - "During Jesus time, anyone who was born outside marriage (married couple(s)) was called a "bastard(s)". [Mary] slept with a man (she claimed it was an imaginary being). There is certainly no "God" (supernatural being) therefore, stop this madness!
If you are a man and you have a kid, do a DNA test; make sure your son or daughter isn't another "JESUS"!"
There is quite a bit there in the world of logical fallacy (using deception to argue a point). I decided to focus on just the meat of his fallacious claims, without going too much into theology. I wanted to make a point about his tactics first, and see how he reacted to that correction, before casting my pearls before him (Mt 7:6). As it would turn out, that was the right decision. The guy was not looking for discussion; he just wanted to take some cheap shots at Christians.
-Well, Jesus was born within a Marriage between Joseph and Mary. That's somewhat beside the point, but for an atheist, it matters in the physical/material sense. Christians can look at it from another point of view that is just as important: Mary [according to some theologians and historical accounts] had already taken a vow to God. That's why, when told she would bear a son, she asked, "How can this be, since I do not know man?" (Lk 1:34).
That's your first strawman fallacy.
-Mary didn't sleep with any man. She also never claimed that she slept with an imaginary being.
That's strawman number two, and a complete misrepresentation of the facts as reported in historical writings (i.e. Scripture). What is recorded is that "the power of the Most High will overshadowed [her]" and the child would be "the son of God" (Lk 1:35). God is spirit, and has no material body...just pure spirit. So, it isn't possible that she "slept" with Him...because there is nothing material about Him. God did not take on human form until the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity took on flesh, which He got entirely form Mary; which leads to your third strawman fallacy.
-Taking a DNA test would only have revealed Mary's DNA, because Jesus took on His flesh entirely from Mary. His Father, the First Person of the Blessed Trinity, has no material DNA because He is pure spirit.
-Whether there is a God, you are free to deny. But simple logic and a cursory glance at the world around you shows that there is indeed a God.
If you want to argue against God, or the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, or whether Christ would have had paternal DNA, or whether Mary could have "slept with" God, you might want to take the time to educate yourself on what Christians believe about God. Otherwise, you are just going to look extremely ignorant, and end up arguing nothing but strawmen.
His response gave me good evidence that he no intention of discussing anything, and no intention of correcting his misrepresentation of the facts and of the Christian faith.
Sardar - "Faith is illogical."
The word "irony" comes to mind.
- [Misrepresenting Christian beliefs in order to show how illogical they are is ALSO illogical.] I've looked at the theist view, the atheist view, the agnostic, the diest...and I believe it takes more faith to be an atheist than a Christian.
After that, he made his final response.
Sardar - "."
Yep. "." was what he wrote. And then we went about our separate ways.
Sardar - "During Jesus time, anyone who was born outside marriage (married couple(s)) was called a "bastard(s)". [Mary] slept with a man (she claimed it was an imaginary being). There is certainly no "God" (supernatural being) therefore, stop this madness!
If you are a man and you have a kid, do a DNA test; make sure your son or daughter isn't another "JESUS"!"
There is quite a bit there in the world of logical fallacy (using deception to argue a point). I decided to focus on just the meat of his fallacious claims, without going too much into theology. I wanted to make a point about his tactics first, and see how he reacted to that correction, before casting my pearls before him (Mt 7:6). As it would turn out, that was the right decision. The guy was not looking for discussion; he just wanted to take some cheap shots at Christians.
-Well, Jesus was born within a Marriage between Joseph and Mary. That's somewhat beside the point, but for an atheist, it matters in the physical/material sense. Christians can look at it from another point of view that is just as important: Mary [according to some theologians and historical accounts] had already taken a vow to God. That's why, when told she would bear a son, she asked, "How can this be, since I do not know man?" (Lk 1:34).
That's your first strawman fallacy.
-Mary didn't sleep with any man. She also never claimed that she slept with an imaginary being.
That's strawman number two, and a complete misrepresentation of the facts as reported in historical writings (i.e. Scripture). What is recorded is that "the power of the Most High will overshadowed [her]" and the child would be "the son of God" (Lk 1:35). God is spirit, and has no material body...just pure spirit. So, it isn't possible that she "slept" with Him...because there is nothing material about Him. God did not take on human form until the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity took on flesh, which He got entirely form Mary; which leads to your third strawman fallacy.
-Taking a DNA test would only have revealed Mary's DNA, because Jesus took on His flesh entirely from Mary. His Father, the First Person of the Blessed Trinity, has no material DNA because He is pure spirit.
-Whether there is a God, you are free to deny. But simple logic and a cursory glance at the world around you shows that there is indeed a God.
If you want to argue against God, or the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, or whether Christ would have had paternal DNA, or whether Mary could have "slept with" God, you might want to take the time to educate yourself on what Christians believe about God. Otherwise, you are just going to look extremely ignorant, and end up arguing nothing but strawmen.
His response gave me good evidence that he no intention of discussing anything, and no intention of correcting his misrepresentation of the facts and of the Christian faith.
Sardar - "Faith is illogical."
The word "irony" comes to mind.
- [Misrepresenting Christian beliefs in order to show how illogical they are is ALSO illogical.] I've looked at the theist view, the atheist view, the agnostic, the diest...and I believe it takes more faith to be an atheist than a Christian.
After that, he made his final response.
Sardar - "."
Yep. "." was what he wrote. And then we went about our separate ways.
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